thuviaptarth | (no subject)

Entry tags:

chatter

(no subject)

I don't know what to do with myself now that I don't have a vid to go home to every night. Yuletide just isn't the same. Clearly, the thing to do is to start another vid. I have reviewed the source for random fandom #1 and decided I don't want to vid it after all, and started reviewing the source for random fandom #2 and decided I still like that vid idea. And I edited the audio. Editing hip hop is SO MUCH EASIER than editing alternative rock, guys! All my vid songs should be hip hop songs! Sadly, my imaginary vids playlist does not agree.

I am not as psyched about random fandom #2 vid as I was about "Low Red Moon," but I expect I will get pulled in when I am vidding, or anyhow that's how it works with writing. Mostly I am excited about Buffy plans (but I need to rewatch the series first) and Sarah Connor Chronicles plans (but I will wait for hiatus because trying to vid a show with canon that changes every week is too scary). It is so intimidating to think about vidding Buffy -- there's so much canon, and so many of the vids I imprinted on way back when were Buffy vids. I'm afraid everything I do will have other people's fingerprints all over it. I am afraid of that with Supernatural, too; in some ways, it was much, much easier to vid Ruby than it would have been to vid Sam or Dean. (And in other ways it was much, much harder. I could write an essay on how the visual narrative undercut half of what the dialog tried to establish about Ruby, if I thought anyone would care.) Even with a focus on Ruby, it was impossible to avoid using clips I've seen used dozens of times before.

I think there may be around three people in the world who care about random fandom #2 -- it's a Yuletide perenniel -- but fortunately I am pretty sure I can rope in at least one of them for beta.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I could write an essay on how the visual narrative undercut half of what the dialog tried to establish about Ruby, if I thought anyone would care.

I want to read that essay! Semi-relevantly, I keep starting to write a complainy post about how 70% of the footage Zoe is in is footage that has "this shot is about Mal" written on it in large block letters (and my feeble attempts to work around this), but I never have the energy to finish it.

Do you know when the SCC hiatus is? I have the same problem. I'm even considering waiting for the season to end, but I so don't have the willpower.

I don't know when SCC hiatus is, but there are new episodes scheduled for the next two weeks. On the one hand, YAY! On the other hand, it makes me paranoid about starting anything, unless I want to restrict myself to Season One source -- which I'm not sure I should or want to do.

The funny thing is, I think I only have one new SCC vid song; I am pretty sure I sent you four of the five I have in queue over the summer. I just still want to see those vids! Maybe with slight variations, but still.

Too long -- will have to make the rest a separate comment.

Season 1 is a lot less viddable than S2, or S1 + S2, IMO. For one thing, S2 has much more in the way of coherent plot. But half the cast is keeping secrets, and major events keep happening, which is so unhelpful!

On the plus side, I vid slower than grass grows, so maybe if I start now I can, um, lay down the last few clips a few days after the season finale airs.

That doesn't actually make me feel better.

Anyway, your ideas were all good ideas that should be made. And two of the characters especially are getting a lot more development (with visuals, even *g*) this year. Right now I'm coping by thinking of the vid I have in mind less in terms of specific scenes (which I usually do) and more in terms of chunks like "ominous AI development" so I can change stuff as I go -- I just hope it'll be enough.

Major things keep happening! This is useful in some cases and not so useful (but still enjoyable) in others. It makes my Cameron idea feel more obvious and less compelling, but that was what I thought about Season 4 of SPN and Ruby, and people still liked the vid, so it's probably worth doing anyway.

The fifth song is a John song. I am happy to have a song for every single major SPN character, but chagrined that the one knocking loudest right now is the one about the emo white boy at the center of the plot.

If I vid at the same pace I've been vidding, I am booked until 2012. I am hoping later vids will go faster. Or that at least some of them will.

I'm coping by thinking of the vid I have in mind less in terms of specific scenes (which I usually do) and more in terms of chunks like "ominous AI development" so I can change stuff as I go -- I just hope it'll be enough.

That sounds reasonable. I am very curious about how people handle storyboarding and drafting; I should look at

bop_radar's chat on that. I found an old post of

heresluck's on it and was amused that her storyboards were much less rigid and controlled than mine.

Semi-relevantly, I keep starting to write a complainy post about how 70% of the footage Zoe is in is footage that has "this shot is about Mal" written on it in large block letters (and my feeble attempts to work around this), but I never have the energy to finish it.

It is relevant! At VVC,

cesperanza was speaking about how now vidders had the technology to do whatever they wanted, rewrite the source in any way, and I was thinking about what you'd said about trying to vid Zoe and about some of the issues I had in vidding Ruby and disagreed strongly. If what you want is to slash the male leads of an action show, then yeah, maybe now we have the tech to put in the kisses and the sex. If what you want is to draw more attention to characters--and the *type* of characters--consistently sidelined by the narrative, I'm not so sure.

I've known since reading Laura Mulvey that POV in visual media is strongly gendered, but recently I've become more aware of how strongly it's raced. It's hard to find Zoe as the center of the clip, or Book. (I'm truly amazed by what you and

gwyn_r did with limited source.) I checked out a Crusoe vid recently and even though the vidder was trying to give equal weight to Friday, you could tell what the source gave more weight to: all the shots were constructed to frame Crusoe, not Friday. And there are some things you can do with this: mask people out of the picture, re-light (& re-shadow) the picture, re-cut the clip. I used variations of them all. But it's still all too much like trying to manufacture something from nothing.

Ruby is supposed to be physically powerful, but we see her fighting only three times in the entire season: (1) in her introduction, she saves Sam and takes out two demons on her own -- but another corners her, and Sam saves her; (2) she fights another female demon to save Sam and Dean (that was the Lost Femslash Verse, sadly cut), is defeated by her, and is saved by Dean; (3) she beats up Dean and Sam in an argument, which is really part of a maneuver by Dean to trap her in a devil's trap. So she's a strong fighter -- who we hardly ever see fighting, and who we always we see losing fights.

Ruby is supposed to have arcane knowledge critical to Sam and Dean's success, and tells Bobby how to rebuild a key magical weapon -- off-screen. We don't see her do it, and we don't even see her hand the weapon to Sam -- Bobby is the one who hands the weapon to Sam. Ruby just nods at him. The visual we get for Ruby in relation to this exchange? Bobby *shoots her* to prove the gun, at that point, is still broken and doesn't kill demons. The expression of Ruby's magical knowledge is *getting shot*.

Ruby had a past relationship with a female demon -- they were lovers, although what gender each was at the time is unknown. The visuals? The two of them not getting that close to each other, then fighting, still not that close to each other. It was *canon* femslash and it was *still* hard to make it look slashy. And needless to say, the depth of the relationship -- that this was the demon to whom Ruby sold her soul when human -- was in no way expressed visually.

A key revelation: all demons were human once; they sold their souls to other demons, then were tortured into forgetting their human lives and becoming demons after death. Visuals? Ruby standing in a parking lot talking to Dean.

Ruby is kicked out of her body and vanquished by Lilith *off-screen*. It's not even clear exactly when it happens, and we don't even get her death scene. (When I started the vid, in fact, I assumed she wouldn't be back for the next season, even re-cast as a different actress.) Even "her" body -- the body usually possessed by Ruby instead of Lilith -- doesn't get a full death scene, because it falls by Dean's body, which is of greater narrative and character concern.

The dialog keeps *saying* this is a powerful, dangerous demon, but the visuals keep saying otherwise.

And there are some things you can do with this: mask people out of the picture, re-light (& re-shadow) the picture, re-cut the clip.

And using motion or framing carried over from the previous clip to redirect the eye. And probably more tricks I didn't think of. But it's still difficult.

Yeah -- I zoomed and cropped more than half of the shots where Zoe wasn't the only person in the frame, and it didn't help nearly as much as I wanted it to. And even when Zoe is the only person in the frame, she tends to be much farther from the camera than, say, River -- far, far fewer closeups, less-close closeups when there were closeups, and that sounds less major than it is when I phrase it like that, but it is! And there were all these other things. I can work around limitations, or try to, but the limitations are still there, and still visible -- there's a big difference between adding a zoom, and being able to teleport yourself back to the filming of the scene and moving the camera 10 feet to one side for a different angle.

The Ruby stuff is fascinating. And frustrating. (And also gives me helpful background for Low Red Moon, since I only saw about three episodes of S3 SPN.) I would say things, but I don't really have anything to add. Thank you for writing it out!

With Zoe it wasn't contradictory; the camera is doing the same thing as the writing. (I read one of the Firefly official book things in the process of making the vid, and there were little blurbs from Joss about each character's creation, and Zoe's was all about what she was supposed to show about Mal.) I'd known when I started the vid that Zoe didn't really have a character arc, or really much onscreen development at all -- the first time I watched Firefly I was sulky because I liked Zoe and River best and the Zoe-centric episode never came -- but I hadn't realized how much that came through in every frame. Vidding the Haitian was easier.

... Not that I'm bitter.

Oh, and I forgot the bit where she reveals she'd been a witch (witches in SPN mythology are people--almost exclusively women--who make deals with demons). Again, no visual linkages.

Maybe I should make this its own post, after all.

And even when Zoe is the only person in the frame, she tends to be much farther from the camera than, say, River -- far, far fewer closeups, less-close closeups when there were closeups, and that sounds less major than it is when I phrase it like that, but it is!

Yes! There's one place that still makes me wince because I needed a close-up and it didn't exist. And I'm sure that happens with major characters, but seriously -- it was so much easier to find alternative close-ups for Sam.

I am so frustrated we never got a Zoe episode. I've heard people call "War Stories" her episode, and it boggles me. It's not a Zoe episode -- it's a Wash episode. It's a Wash episode in which he and Mal do male primate posturing and then bonding, even though Zoe refuses to act like an object of dispute. The comic "Better Days" should have been a Zoe comic, but it fails at character development, not to mention coherency.

Not enough Zoe, damn it.

I think there may be around three people in the world who care about random fandom #2

As long as you're one of the three people in the world who cares, why worry? I don't regret making my Hedwig vid at all. ::draws sparkly hearts around it::

I'm afraid everything I do will have other people's fingerprints all over it.

There's room in any fandom for more good vids, and the thing about fandom is that fans always want more more MORE. It's comforting.

As long as you're one of the three people in the world who cares, why worry?

Because I am greedy for feedback! But that's also what makes working on random fandom #2 a relief: I already know it won't get the response "Low Red Moon" did, so I don't have to worry about competing, and can focus on the vid instead of my anxieties about audience.

There's room in any fandom for more good vids, and the thing about fandom is that fans always want more more MORE. It's comforting.

You speak as if my anxieties were susceptible to reason. ;) You have no idea how hard it was not to do a pre-vid post about how "Origin Stories" was my one really radical idea and in general I like character studies and mood pieces and do not expect my vids to transform the nature of vidding or, um. ever push the envelope again.

Well, we're all greedy for feedback, that's for sure. But it sounds like you have a healthy attitude toward your second vid.

You speak as if my anxieties were susceptible to reason. ;)

It's a bad habit of mine, I admit.

do not expect my vids to transform the nature of vidding or, um. ever push the envelope again.

I'm certain I never felt exactly that way after releasing "Rook" at VVC. Oh, no.

(:

Fuck the envelope. Make what you like. People will love it.

I'm certain I never felt exactly that way after releasing "Rook" at VVC. Oh, no.

See, this is why you are my vidding fairy godmother. :)

Fuck the envelope. Make what you like. People will love it.

I feel like I keep telling you that! (Or, okay, it's "Fuck conventional vidding" instead of "Fuck the envelope," but still.)

::laugh:: You do keep telling me that! But my point is, I am by god gonna keep making what I like no matter what. I'm just *observing* that there may be audience-related repercussions. I'm okay with that. But I think it's interesting and worthy of discussion and stuff. (:

Yes, but I do not feel your observations are borne out by the evidence, which is to say that despite your conviction you're losing audience, people continue to love--and new people come to love--the new vids you're doing. ;)

Worrying about audience may be a waste of time, but it's a waste I can't help committing. I'll try to chalk it up to emotional prep work, like rewatching episodes. Like any pain or anxiety, I need to acknowledge it so I can ignore it.

I have vague thoughts about anxieties of influence and romantic delusions of solitary authorship and how embarassed I am to admit to them but how thoroughly they affect me, but wow, even I don't care, so I will refrain from articulating them.

I wish there was a way to get conclusive evidence without seeming like the world's biggest egotist. (:

I'll try to chalk it up to emotional prep work, like rewatching episodes. Like any pain or anxiety, I need to acknowledge it so I can ignore it.

Seems like a pretty sound strategy, actually.

I have vague thoughts about anxieties of influence and romantic delusions of solitary authorship and how embarassed I am to admit to them but how thoroughly they affect me, but wow, even I don't care, so I will refrain from articulating them.

Well, I won't try and talk you into it, but I am interested, should you ever decide to write it up. (:

Oh, it's just overvaluing (some kinds of) originality in art and seeing art as the expression of the artist's unique snowflake soul instead of seeing it as the intersection of individuality and culture.

I like thinking of myself as a unique snowflake soul, but who doesn't?

I'm interested in the distinction you're making between originality and individuality. I recognize that the relevant point here is the word "intersection", but I'm still curious for more clarification.

Am I making a distinction between originality and individuality? I hadn't thought so, but you may be right.

I'll try to uncompress -- sorry if I'm saying things you already know. Harold Bloom has this theory, "the anxiety of influence," that great poets are afraid of the influence/interference of other people on their work, especially their poetic forefathers, and that they cope by misprision, by deliberately or semi-deliberately misreading earlier work in order to create something new. The poetic son must misread/kill the poetic father in order to become king/create new work. Very Freudian, but also very Romantic with a capital R, because it comes out of the Romantic conviction that art is the pure expression of individuality and is best when it is closest to nature and farthest from the polluting influences of society.

And intellectually I know this is bullshit, and furthermore link the whole set of theories to a a particular social structure that's damaging to women, and also people of color and colonized peoples, anyone on the wrong side of a power divide. What gets defined as "natural" and who has the time, money, freedom, and social support to do the work of "solitary" genius are all defined by the existing social order, as is what gets recognized as "genius", "original", or "derivative". One of the things I like about fandom is that it not only recognizes, it depends upon, the community and collaborative underpinnings of individual works of art, at least for fans; I wish more people were willing to make the same realization about the professional work we organize around, but I do think more people are getting there.

At the same time, I have this emotional longing to do something really special and unique that no one else could do. And that's not really useful, because it's not about the work. It's about me. It's just ego.

I'm used to it with writing, and I'll get used to it with vidding. It's just easier to deal with for writing because with writing I know what I'm doing.

Like, right now I am trying to quash a vidbunny because it's not *different* enough -- it's too close to a recent vid, and it's too close to "Low Red Moon": it's Supernatural, and it's non-human POV, and it's probably going to use some of the techniques that I figured out in "Low Red Moon," and also I'm not 100% convinced I can make the bizarre song choice work. I wanted to do something different from my second vid. Different fandom, different focus, different techniques -- I wanted to learn something new, flex some other muscles, do something my friends who don't watch SPN could appreciate better or at least differently.

But as you can tell by the past tense I'm about giving up on the fight. Another weird non-human POV with Biblical imagery coming up. Please let this one not take 6 months.

I have this emotional longing to do something really special and unique that no one else could do.

I guess I think that we all make something really special and unique that no one else could do, every time we make art. Your second weird non-human POV with Biblical imagery SPN vid is not only going to be different from your first one, it's going to be different from any weird non-human POV with Biblical imagery SPN vid that anyone else would make -- because they'd make it their way, and not your way.

I see what you're getting at about the wrongth of the quest for originality as defined by poets, Romantics, Freud, etc. The power problems are inherent in art as it exists under the patriarchy. But I don't see anything wrong with wanting your work to be new and different; it may not be useful to you to have that as a motivating force, but I guarantee you it's useful to me. Maybe it's ego, and maybe it's just what gets me into my vidding chair, but whatever it is, it works.

Maybe the striving for special snowflakitude is bad, but I believe that we are unique, and that the things we make will be defined by our particular qualities, even as I believe that all art is essentially collaborative and inextricably enmeshed with the culture from which it springs.

Yay hip hop song! And you vidding Buffy would be amazing. Don't worry, I'm sure you'd find your own way to make the clips and ideas new again :)

Yay hip hop song! And thank you. :)

OMG I hear you.

I am a vidding fool this fall because I became so absorbed in making my first vid (which took months upon months) that I found myself oddly twitchy and bummed once it was done! So I promptly started on vid #2, in a completely different fandom. ::facepalm::

(I'm thrilled, actually. Even though I know the vids I'm making are not sophisticated. They're bringing me so much joy. And also hair-tearing-out. But mostly joy. :-)

Yes! I am excited to be making what I want, especially because no one else can make it for me. I can only win so many vidders in auction. ;)

But also, it's a great pleasure to learn how to do something I'm not naturally good at. I'm naturally good -- or have the advantage of many, many years of working on -- writing. Vidding requires all sorts of skills I have to acquire painfully, one by one. It's nice to know I *can* do that and get better.

So I promptly started on vid #2, in a completely different fandom. ::facepalm::

See, I *wanted* vid #2 to be a completely different fandom! I was afraid of repeating myself too much. I am trying to shoo away distracting Supernatural ideas.

But also, it's a great pleasure to learn how to do something I'm not naturally good at. I'm naturally good -- or have the advantage of many, many years of working on -- writing. Vidding requires all sorts of skills I have to acquire painfully, one by one. It's nice to know I *can* do that and get better.

YES. A thousand times yes! I know that feeling so well. :-)

Are your random fandoms secret, or can you tell?

I think it's better marketing to keep it secret, but what the hell, I have a big mouth.

Random fandom #1 -- abandoned or at least thoroughly backburnered -- was The Lady Eve.

Random fandom #2 is Profit. There is at least one other Profit vid I know of -- maybe two? -- and I am carefully not looking for it until I am done.

Oh, interesting! I saw one episode of Profit when it came out, was intrigued but never got a chance to see more before it was canceled.

It's out on DVD now and well worth checking out.

OMG THE LADY EVE. Abandoned idea or not, the mere fact that you even considered vidding this movie makes me incredibly happy. It routinely makes it onto the top 10 -- no, top FIVE -- list of Vonnie's all time favourite movies. Oh, Barbara Stanwyck. How so awesome?

Profit vid would be coooool. And hey, I know easily 10 people in fandom who'd happily watch a Profit vid, so there.

I still like the song idea, but it looks so hard to vid -- I hadn't realized that it's all fixed-camera, with no external camera motion. I am keeping the song on my imaginary vids playlist and maybe one day I will return to it. But for now I am going to play with easier things.

I found the perfect song for Profit. I can hardly believe it. I only hope I can do it justice.

Write the essay: I care. (Bonus points if you could make it even slightly comprehensible to those of us who haven't seen any Supernatural, but I'd read it either way.)

Hee. See reply to Shati's comment -- that's the outline.

Yes, I read that and went "D'oh!"

I enjoyed the way you juxtaposed narrative vs visual, its a new way for me to analyse frames beyond physical placement and lighting etc, and discrimination via omission and absence is always the more subtle bias to spot.

It's hard to tell how much was discrimination and how much was incompetence--Supernatural's quality was severely affected by the writers' strike, and exposition over demonstration marred even the depiction of the leads. But it was worse for the supporting characters.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

(no subject)

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Allow me to adjust my tiara...

Re: Allow me to adjust my tiara...

Re: Allow me to adjust my tiara...

Re: Allow me to adjust my tiara...

Re: Allow me to adjust my tiara...

Re: Allow me to adjust my tiara...

Re: Allow me to adjust my tiara...

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject