thuvia ptarth (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
thuviaptarth) wrote2007-04-02 11:46 am
thuviaptarth) wrote2007-04-02 11:46 am
Entry tags:
Thinking about the spn newsletter
[ETA 4/3 9:59pm: I've heavily edited this post to separate out the general discussion of fandom and fantasy space from a specific question of the SPN newsletter; it was thoughtless of me to associate the two.
[This post is public because I did want to get the opinions of fans not on my flist. However, it is not a request itself, and it is not directed at the maintainers of the spn newsletter, although I'm aware some of them may stumble across it; I am trying to figure out if a request is a good idea. A day later I'm inclining towards "not a good idea," but I dislike deleting posts; it feels like trying to cover up your mistakes, and I'd rather acknowledge having made them and move on.]
I've been wondering if it might help settle some nerves in Supernatural fandom for the newsletter to re-arrange the template to list gen stories before Sam/Dean.
I like this idea entirely apart from the recurrent arguments about the role of incest in fiction because it accords with my personal notions of categorization -- you do the gen, which is a subset of stories distinguished by its lack of or failure to focus on pairings, and then you do all the stories that belong to the category of pairing fic, broken down by significant pairings. It seems to me that this makes it easier for non-Wincest readers to cut off their reading when they reach the end of the category, instead of having to skip past the Sam/Dean (unless of course they're also looking for het or other), has a neutral effect on the subset of Sam/Dean slashers who also like gen (which seem to me to be a large percentage of fandom), and offers only a mild inconvenience to the Sam/Dean slashers who do not like gen, as they tend to be indifferent to gen rather than disturbed by it.
There's a lot of "seems" in there because I haven't done any kind of rigorous analysis of this (my life is sadly empty of pie charts), and because I haven't yet gone through the newsletter info/memories to see if this idea has already been proposed, discussed, and rejected. I don't want to re-hash old arguments, and I don't want to express this as a demand or an entitlement; I think the newsletter is a great fandom resource, put together by people who are doing great work for the fandom infrastructure, and I get a lot of good out of it as it is.
But I thought I'd throw it out there as a proposal and see what you guys think and whether you know of any previous fandom history affecting it that I might not be aware of.
[ETA 4/3: Other issues moved to a separate post.]
I'm going to be offline for most of today traveling and celebrating Passover, so I will probably not be able to respond to comments quickly.
[This post is public because I did want to get the opinions of fans not on my flist. However, it is not a request itself, and it is not directed at the maintainers of the spn newsletter, although I'm aware some of them may stumble across it; I am trying to figure out if a request is a good idea. A day later I'm inclining towards "not a good idea," but I dislike deleting posts; it feels like trying to cover up your mistakes, and I'd rather acknowledge having made them and move on.]
I've been wondering if it might help settle some nerves in Supernatural fandom for the newsletter to re-arrange the template to list gen stories before Sam/Dean.
I like this idea entirely apart from the recurrent arguments about the role of incest in fiction because it accords with my personal notions of categorization -- you do the gen, which is a subset of stories distinguished by its lack of or failure to focus on pairings, and then you do all the stories that belong to the category of pairing fic, broken down by significant pairings. It seems to me that this makes it easier for non-Wincest readers to cut off their reading when they reach the end of the category, instead of having to skip past the Sam/Dean (unless of course they're also looking for het or other), has a neutral effect on the subset of Sam/Dean slashers who also like gen (which seem to me to be a large percentage of fandom), and offers only a mild inconvenience to the Sam/Dean slashers who do not like gen, as they tend to be indifferent to gen rather than disturbed by it.
There's a lot of "seems" in there because I haven't done any kind of rigorous analysis of this (my life is sadly empty of pie charts), and because I haven't yet gone through the newsletter info/memories to see if this idea has already been proposed, discussed, and rejected. I don't want to re-hash old arguments, and I don't want to express this as a demand or an entitlement; I think the newsletter is a great fandom resource, put together by people who are doing great work for the fandom infrastructure, and I get a lot of good out of it as it is.
But I thought I'd throw it out there as a proposal and see what you guys think and whether you know of any previous fandom history affecting it that I might not be aware of.
[ETA 4/3: Other issues moved to a separate post.]
I'm going to be offline for most of today traveling and celebrating Passover, so I will probably not be able to respond to comments quickly.
Re: A possible alternative take
Hmm. *thinks about this for a moment* But the thing is, this then appears to be a cosmetic change for the sake of appearances only, to appease gen fans who would prefer that the fandom not appear to be a certain way. (And opinions are of course going to vary wildly as to whether it actually is that way, so I won't touch on that.) In point of fact, the same argument could be made the other way around (not by me, but certainly by someone) that if gen links are first, it appears that the fandom isn't friendly to Wincest. And then we are back where we started, with not being able to please all the people all the time.
It may appear that to have the links first privileges Wincest, but I tend to think that may be a perceptual issue influenced by strong feelings, which is really just a symptom of the underlying problem: many fans just flat don't like incest fiction, and would like to make the fact of its existence easier to bear while they play in this fandom. Though I appreciate your point, and think the change would certainly be better for some on that level, I'm just...not convinced that any changes for appearances' sake are the answer. I'm not sure there's an answer at all. But I'm really interested to see what others have to say about it.
Re: A possible alternative take
...this would be a stretch, imo. And would strain the definition of 'friendly' to border on "obsessed with".
I myself cannot see how having the Sam/Dean pairing consistantly first fails to priviledge incest fic over gen fic.
many fans just flat don't like incest fiction, and would like to make the fact of its existence easier to bear while they play in this fandom.
Exactly. This. Yes.
As I read it, this statement (would like to make the fact of its existence easier to bear) does not include wiping incest fic from fandom. IMO, swapping orders on the newsletter list would only serve to shift the fannish focus, and would not *exclude* anyone. (As a policy aimed at exclusion, it is distinctly unsatisfying.)
We are not going to please everyone, there I do agree. But I see this sort of compromise as neglible in cost, and possibly gaining quite a lot.
I, too, would really like to hear other people's opinions.
- hg
Re: A possible alternative take
I myself cannot see how having the Sam/Dean pairing consistantly first fails to priviledge incest fic over gen fic.
These two statements strike me as contradictory. If we're going to state that putting Sam/Dean before gen makes some gen readers feel unwelcome, then we've got to acknowledge the possibility that putting gen first might make some Sam/Dean readers feel unwelcome.
And I don't think having the Sam/Dean listing first is intended as a statement about the fandom; I think it is probably an accident of history based on the interests of the newsletter founders/maintainers or what they perceived to be the majority interests of fandom.
Re: A possible alternative take
Right now, I don't see any significance to the ordering. RPS gets listed last among the fic categories, even below het and "other," yet I doubt anyone could claim that RPS is unwelcome or unpopular in the fandom. As a gen fan, I really couldn't care less what the order is. It's certainly never been a factor in whether or not I feel welcome in the fandom (which, for the record, I do).