thuviaptarth | Labels & warnings

cathexys recently posted a response to

abyssinia4077's Thoughts on shipping vs. gen, and many people posted many clever further responses. My favorite is

elz's, because it captures perfectly my desires as a reader.

As a writer, I must admit, I am somewhat more cranky or confused or cranky because confused. When or before I'm writing, I don't tend to think in terms of het, f/f, m/f, or gen; I tend to think in terms of genre or form. In my head, "Truly and Forever" gets categorized primarily as a horror story; although, once I get out of my head, I am forced to admit that anyone who categorizes a story whose sole physical action is girl-on-girl cunnilingus as f/f is not exactly being unreasonable. Likewise, I may think of m/f, f/f, m/m as primarily categorizations for romance, failed romance, and/or porn, but a moment's reflection indicates fandom doesn't use the terms that way, and honestly, when I'm being lazy and shorthanding other people's stories, neither do I. "Wild Dogs" I think of as "hardboiled noir," but the recipient asked for an m/m relationship, and I did my best to include one; I suppose I think of it as "noir" in some contexts and "m/m" in others, though of course they are hardly mutually exclusive.

[eta: Counter-examples from the country of my head: "Subaqueous" is het because it's a romance. "Spider Bites On All Your Lovers" is het because it's porn. "Rewritten on the Body" is m/m slash because it's a romance and "Leave a kiss but i' the cup" is m/m slash because it's a failed romance. But I'm not sure about "No Oceans Left," which strikes me primarily as a character study despite being structured to lead up to the m/f sex scene, or "Another Girl's Paradise," which is the same except f/f, or "The body's sinking bones," the same except m/m and they don't manage to have sex (but the failed sex scene is the climax of the story anyway). In conclusion: No conclusion! I confuse myself. And apparently re-use the same story structure over and over again without realizing it.]

I used to be opposed to warnings and pairing labels. Now -- eh. I am pickier about pairings myself; I figure I might as well include them, if I remember. Warnings, well, I just posted my first story to include a warning. I'm still not clear on how to do them, exactly; so many times the "ANGST!!!!!!" and "DARK!!!!!!!!!" just make me roll my eyes, or don't seem warranted, although maybe that's just because the writers raised my fears (or expectations) too high. I also don't know how well my definitions for "angst" or "dark" accord with other people's; people often seem so much more affected by the sorrow or pain of stories (not just mine) than I expect. I don't know whether that's fannish exaggeration--a kind of social courtesy--or that I just have a different baseline for misery. I'm inclined to warn for sex or violence (or combinations of the two) and let the emotional fallout take care of itself.

Hmm. I thought this was meta, but it's looking more like meandering.

And I didn't even mention my deep confusion about ratings.

eta: Never mind!

cofax7 said it better.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I should just have shut my mouth and waited for you to post. *g*

Ha! I was just thinking the same thing in reverse.

Hey, you are me. Except for the part where I remain relatively hardline about marking pairings and other labels. I kind of like the idea of labelling for genre (as we used to do! In XF of old! Sob!!), as long as "angst" is not a genre.

In re warnings, I was at work and completely ignored your stated warning in "Spider Bites", skipped right on past it, went blind for the NC-17 rating, and failed to click on the Author Note, and that was a Mistake. (It was eagerness, you know, to read your writing. I went back at home and read the rest.) So I don't know what would draw appropriate attention without grabbing readers by the shirt-collars and asking, "ARE YOU SURE??" I do tend to agree that the fandom at large demonstrates a considerably more -- explicit? theatrical? finely-tuned? -- sense of what is angsty and/or dark than I do, so your Author Note might have been more effective on people who read more carefully than I do.

You're confused about ratings, like PG, PG-13, R, NC-17 ratings? (As you know, Bob, I am one who has rated a story NC-17 solely due to violence. I would like to think other people have done that, but I've never seen it.)

"Angst" is not a genre! But neither is "character study," and that is how I do think of some of my stories -- perhaps most of them. "Spider Bites" is porn/character study, where the genre is porn and character study is ... I don't know? the form? the intent? I confuse myself!

In re warnings, I was at work and completely ignored your stated warning in "Spider Bites", skipped right on past it, went blind for the NC-17 rating, and failed to click on the Author Note, and that was a Mistake.

Eee! Yes. I'm sorry to have been the occasion of sin, or possibly just the occasion of the violation of company internet policies. It is the least work-safe thing I have ever posted, I am pretty sure.

(It was eagerness, you know, to read your writing. I went back at home and read the rest.)

Thank you! I am always so pleased when you like something I have written. I always feel sure I am too sentimental and melodramatic for you.

I probably should have put the detailed warnings in the Warnings instead of the Author's Note, but, um, that was comment-whoring, honestly. I was afraid more people would skip it because of their squicks or simply because they'd assume something that crowded such a laundry list of kinks into a short piece must suck, as I am often prey to this prejudice myself. Well, comment-whoring and the feeling that, Okay, it's not *much* of a plot, but suspense about the demon will do next is about all the suspense the story's got going, and it would be a shame to spoil it.

My head is full of conflicting opinions, even before other people's opinions get there.

You're confused about ratings, like PG, PG-13, R, NC-17 ratings?

Initially, I rated "Truly and Forever" PG-13. Later I upped it to R. I guess I tend to default to R now, except a lot of the time I do gen without sex or violence, so it might as well be G, although it's gen without sex or violence but with themes I tend to expect only adults are interested in. The R/NC-17 line often confuses me, too. "Spider Bites," problematic as it was in other respects, was the easiest rating decision I've made in a long time.

I like

astolat's breakdown of explicit vs. inexplicit, but feel bound to do movie ratings for comms that ask for them.

As you know, Bob, I am one who has rated a story NC-17 solely due to violence. I would like to think other people have done that, but I've never seen it.

I have a friend who did it in Nikita. There was a drill involved.

This discussion seems to be all over Metafandom!

I am beginning to think that the best way of sorting the whole labelling thing is for each writer to put their personal definitions in a post on the lj and link to it at the head of the story. (Which is pretty much how fanzines worked in the 70s).

That should, of course, be 'on their own lj'. I must learn to preview before posting.

Hmm, I have a list of definitions at the beginning of my Genre Index (http://www.livejournal.com/users/alixtii/43523.html)--and I think that's the only place I ever refer to my stories by genre (in the header itself it's just characters and/or pairing and, if I feel generous, rating). So I'm actually good by your standard.

(via metafandom)

You know, on some days, I just want to write, "Warning: Content may evoke emotions."

"Or it may not! But in either case, don't blame me!"

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