Notice

[thuviaptarth]

Hey. I'm having a pretty bad post-con crash and dealing with some personal stuff that started coming down over the weekend, so I'll probably be even slower about responding to comments than usual.

I locked the Townhall on Vidding and Visibility notes after posting them because of some concerns about (ha) too much visibility. I'd like to make them public again, but only if the people cited are comfortable with the level of anonymity and the way I've represented them, and it's going to take me a while to check with everybody. In the meantime, kassrachel has a public post here.

I'm going to try to get down panel reports first, because they'll suffer the most from delay and dimming of memory. I wanted to comment on the premieres of non-attending vidders, because they didn't get to judge by applause, "aw"s, or laughter, but my first several comments came out backhanded and/or zombie-like, so that will have to wait. But I recommend people check out aycheb's "Scarlet Ribbons," charmax's "Tanglewood Tree", keewick's "32" and "Sorry", halcyon_shift's "Natural Blues", and cherryice's "Ghosts (4)", all non-Premieres-Show premiering vids by nonattending vidders that are just as strong as the best of Premieres.

harriet_spy has an interesting take on the Vids That Push The Envelope panel, which ... hmm. Her perceptions of the panel don't exactly match mine, and I disagree with several things in the comments. But it's worth reading. I'm not sure it will come out right because of my current zombie-like state, but I don't feel like I'm anxious about changes in vidding as an artform (whereas I am definitely anxious about changes in visibility). I'm excited! I think the potential for new and different vids is awesome. I'm excited by the new kinds of vids I'm seeing, I'm excited by the new vidders I've discovered, I'm excited by having needs met that haven't been fulfilled before, I'm excited by seeing things I hadn't even thought to want before. Some people at the panel spoke of how what they wanted to see as viewers or achieve as vidders had expanded over time, but for me, honestly, I feel less like what I want has changed (that was probably the first two Vividcons I went to) than that what I want is finally happening. cesperanza spoke (at this panel? some other time at the con?) about how, looking at vids, she felt like she was watching TV "as we would make it--and it's better than the way the mainstream makes it," but this was the first year I had a glimpse of that. And that relates, obviously, to the different ways that people define "we," as well as our different wants, and relates to some of the issues I have with cesperanza's own premiere, "Supersmart."

Vidding is so intertwined with slash fandom, and that means different things to hardcore slashers, people who have slash as a sexual identity, people for whom the presence of slash indicates us, and people who enjoy slash sometimes but who don't see it as inextricable with their personal or fannish identity. Maybe I am simplifying? I don't want to misrepresent people. But I think there are a lot of people who see slash on the screen and that makes them basically happy, that makes them feel represented, that fulfills their desires, and I don't just mean their sexual desires. Whereas for me it's not enough for me to see women's art on the screen: I need to see actual women. I need women to be present in the text, as well as reshaping it. I need new stories, or old stories brought out, I need marginalized stories centered, I need the world re-centered on women (white women and women of color) and people of color (women of color and men of color) and queer people and slash stories (which are not the same thing. I think? Maybe? Sometimes?) I need more.

And I'm getting more. This excites me and satisfies me and makes me happy in ways I can't even say.

And some of the more isn't for me, doesn't do what I am interested in doing, but I'm glad that it exists for other people and also I think that it enables some of what I want or don't yet know to want. Creative ferment is exciting, it's the sign of a living, changing artform, it makes me so happy that it's going on.

Comments

[kassrachel.livejournal.com]

I think it was at my first Escapade that I attended a panel which related somehow to privacy and visibility. (It might have also been about lj? I'm not sure anymore; it was probably 2001 or 2002...) Anyway, someone made the point that people aren't always comfortable having their lj usernames identified in panel reports. It hadn't even occurred to me that that might be the case, but since then I generally don't use people's names in my panel notes, though I often ID the moderator by username. But mileage clearly varies on this as on everything...

Like you, I'm excited rather than troubled by the expansions I perceive in the vidding world. Part of this may be because I'm pretty certain that the things I personally like will continue to be created; another part of it is probably because my tastes have broadened over my years in vid fandom, so having more of a smorgasbord of things to watch makes me happy.

I'm fascinated by your assertion that vidding is intertwined with slash fandom; I mean, it is for me, because slash fandom is how I came into fandom and active fannishness, but surely there are other vidders and vid fans who came in to vidding not via slash. Still, I really appreciate your point that all of this reads differently, and has different meanings, for people who have slash as a sexual identity, people for whom "slash" means "us," people who enjoy it but don't find it inextricable to their identity (and presumably people who actively dislike it, too.)

I need women to be present in the text, as well as reshaping it.

That's a gorgeous way to phrase that; thank you. I'm struggling with this a little bit, because in a lot of ways my needs are more on the other end of the spectrum. I want to see women's work, I want to see how we reshape the characters and their stories -- that's what really gets me going, on all kinds of levels. And I like having women in the text, too! but it doesn't seem to be the same kind of need for me that I think intellectually that it should be. So that's something I'm ruminating on a lot at the moment.

But regardless, I'm happy that you're beginning to get the "more" that you need. :-)

Creative ferment is exciting, it's the sign of a living, changing artform, it makes me so happy that it's going on.

Yes yes yes yes yes yes.

[thuviaptarth.livejournal.com]

t hadn't even occurred to me that that might be the case, but since then I generally don't use people's names in my panel notes, though I often ID the moderator by username. But mileage clearly varies on this as on everything...

I don't think it's an issue for most panel reports, which is why I initially posted publically, but people were discussing closeting and/or real life identities in possibly identifiable terms. I felt really bad and really dumb when I realized I might have outed people in a post where I was cautioning people about the effects of outing. I'm really grateful that the people who might have been most injured have been generous about the mistake.

I'm fascinated by your assertion that vidding is intertwined with slash fandom; I mean, it is for me, because slash fandom is how I came into fandom and active fannishness, but surely there are other vidders and vid fans who came in to vidding not via slash.

Well, it's the historical basis of vidding -- the earliest vids are slash vids. And it's still a strong current -- sometimes the dominant current? I suppose it depends which part of the ocean you swim in.

And I don't want to disrespect my community's history or make slashers feel excluded or like they're not going to get what *they* want and need from fandom. I am of multiple opinions about this, like everything. :) ("Two Jews, three opinions.") I mean, in some senses I feel like I am in the position of the dominant majority who comes into the minority space and complains about not being dominant there -- because slash may be common and even a default in some fannish circles, but those circles exist within a society that does not value the slash aesthetic even when they recognize it exists. But I feel like -- it's not just that I want het romance, although sometimes I like it, I want f/f slash, I want gen, I want women's work, I want feminist work, I want things that I would argue are devalued by mainstream society *too*. And I realize that we all have an economics of scarcity with personal time and attention, but I don't think that fandom runs on an economy of scarcity, I think it runs on an economy of generosity. I think there's room for all of us. When I say that I'm having more of my needs fulfilled, I don't want to be saying or implying that other people's needs are unimportant or that what other fans get out of slash and vidding is unimportant. I don't want to take a bigger slice of the pie and give other fans a smaller slice. I want to bake more pies.

But regardless, I'm happy that you're beginning to get the "more" that you need. :-)

Thank you!

[kassrachel.livejournal.com]

I want to bake more pies.

YES. That's it exactly.

\o/!