thuviaptarth: golden thuvia with six-legged lion (thuvia maid of mars)thuvia ptarth ([personal profile] thuviaptarth) wrote,
@ 2010-08-17 10:45 am UTC
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Entry tags:doctor who
I have finished New Who! I also watched Torchwood: Children of Earth and then I tried to watch the Martha Jones episodes of Torchwood and got bored. Now I am rewatching Nine to see if Eccleston is as good as I remembered. (Yes.)

More thoughts on Who that Who fandom has probably already discussed
Watching things all out of order makes the character arc clearer, if anything, and also makes the continuity between Nine and Ten stronger; a lot of the weirdness between Ten and Rose probably shakes out to trying to get Ten up to where Nine was too quickly, so Davies could go on with the arcs he wanted. So far, also, he's either less prone to grandiloquent speeches with Nine or Eccleston delivers them better. A lot of later Ten falls into the same problem as Buffy Season Seven, which is that as many intradiegetic reasons as you may have to make your protagonist's speeches boring and/or questionable, you are in trouble when you bore your audience.

Really I think the biggest problem with Davies' writing on Who (okay, except for the ridiculous plotting) is that he inclines towards tragedy and the regeneration structure of Who inclines towards comedy. It's a mismatch which shows the hand of the author too much when he gets too far from bittersweet romance (Shakespearian, I mean). Torchwood: Children of Earth may not work as a continuation of the Torchwood series, but it works fine as a miniseries on its own. Even Captain Jack's truly terrible acting isn't too much of a handicap, because the series really revolves around Frobisher. I'm not sure what the series' ultimate take on Frobisher is (I certainly don't agree that he's a good man, but I'm not sure how reliable I'm meant to consider his secretary), but damn, the actor delivered.

I get the impression it is unfashionable now, but I do think Ten/Rose are as adorable as a hat full of kittens. And I do adore all of Davies' major companions--I do warm up faster to the emotional intensity of his writing than I do to Moffett's more technically proficient and profoundly better plotted stuff. Though I grant Moffett got me there in the end, and without the drama queen hangover.


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oracne: steampunk dalek by alex holden (steampunk dalek)


[personal profile] oracne
2010-08-17 03:41 pm UTC (link)
You are making me want to watch it all over again.

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thuviaptarth: golden thuvia with six-legged lion (thuvia maid of mars)


[personal profile] thuviaptarth
2010-08-17 05:06 pm UTC (link)
I am now in the middle of the "Dalek"/"Long Game"/"Father's Day"/"The Empty Child"/"The Doctor Dances" sequence, which I love like burning.

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oracne: turtle (turtle)


[personal profile] oracne
2010-08-17 06:13 pm UTC (link)
That is my totally favorite sequence.

I got to meet the guy who wrote "Dalek" at Readercon though I didn't know it was him until the next day.

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laurashapiro: Ten and Rose beam at each other (ten and rose)


[personal profile] laurashapiro
2010-08-17 04:49 pm UTC (link)
Ten+Rose = Kittens for sure, and somehow I can get there without judgment (something about Who operates entirely in my squee zone and outside of my critical zone -- while watching, anyway). Yet I am not at all unaware of the pretty serious problems with it. Hence "The Lonely People".

Moar unpopular opinions: I LOVE CHILDREN OF EARTH LIKE BURNING. Largely because of Frobisher (my god, what a performance) but I actually kind of love the writing, too. Even when it's stupid and wrong, I feel like it's stupid and wrong in the right way, somehow.

John Barrowman, I adore you, but you should be on a big stage, not a small screen.

I do find myself vulnerable to RTD's emotional intensity, yes, but I don't think he's cornered the market on that. Moffat has shown he can bring it, too (Blink! Silence in the Library! Vincent and the Doctor!), but he focuses on different emotions. Likewise, Moffat is capable of story problems rivaling the RTD era (I'm looking at you, Victory of the Daleks).

In conclusion: Who is love.

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thuviaptarth: golden thuvia with six-legged lion (thuvia maid of mars)


[personal profile] thuviaptarth
2010-08-17 05:03 pm UTC (link)
I, um, hate "Vincent and the Doctor" like burning. I think it is simplistic and emotionally manipulative and just UGH. Perhaps my most unpopular DW opinion?

When I was watching COE, I was really unhappy with some of the strings-pulling visible in the final part -- I'm not sure I actually buy humanity getting saved -- but I do think it's one of the best examinations of the banality of evil I've seen outside the actual depictions of totalitarian regimes. The more I think of it as Frobisher's story the more I like it.

S1's "Dalek" is cheesier than I remembered it, but I still love it a whole lot. The Doctor-Dalek confrontation means worlds to me. And I remember they come in again in the finale in a way I find thematically resonant. I can pretty much do without them after that, especially in the two-parter which seemed to derive its idea of Depression New York solely from repeated viewings of bad performances of Guys and Dolls.

I like "Blink" and I even like the other weeping angels episodes, but I don't understand how Amy remembering seeing the angels is any different from any human visualizing the angels in her mind's eye and therefore do not get why humanity isn't universally doomed as soon as someone hears of the angels.

I think the big problem with RTD's plotting for me is that he is so sloppy with the resolution to cliffhangers and conclusions to arcs, so clearly bent on the destination that he neglects the proper setup (rather like Joss Whedon), that the results ultimately feel arbitrary and things like "The Doctor must regenerate now!" "The Doctor can't regenerate now!" "The Doctor can get rid of dangerous radiation through his left foot!" "The Doctor is killed by dangerous radiation!" just make it hard to see any conclusion as inevitable rather than as the result of whatever the writers feel like doing now. The end of Season Donna is probably the best written of the Ten season enders, thematically and plot justified and everything, but by that time so many gods have been pulled out of so many machines it's hard to buy that the machine is empty this time.

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laurashapiro: Close-up of Jack Harkness' torso with crossed arms. He's smiling. (jack arms)


[personal profile] laurashapiro
2010-08-17 05:25 pm UTC (link)
I saw your remarks on "Vincent and the Doctor" elsewhere, so I knew that. We differ. (: But I was citing it just in terms of emotional intensity, which I think it's fair to say it does have, whether you like the way it's executed or not.

Re COE: I'm not sure I buy humanity getting saved, either. But yeah, I watched the whole thing as Frobisher's story -- in this way I agree with TW fans who hated it: it did not feel like Torchwood -- and I ate it up with a big spoon. Must rewatch.

Good point about the weeping angels. I thought a lot of their original concept fell apart in the two-parter (we should never have seen them move!). While the new thing, about the image of an angel is an angel, is scary as hell, it also kind of falls apart the more you look at it.

I think RTD's deal with plotting on Who (and I have to say I don't find this to be true for his other shows much if at all) is that he cares much more about bringing the audience to a specific emotional place than bringing them to a narrative one.

And it's really Jack Harkness I love, not John Barrowman. And Jack Harkness on DW, not on TW, where I find him okay at best. I miss the Jack Harkness I fell for.

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thuviaptarth: golden thuvia with six-legged lion (thuvia maid of mars)

PS


[personal profile] thuviaptarth
2010-08-17 05:04 pm UTC (link)
I'm glad you and the rest of fandom like John Barrowman. I give him to you! I don't want him!

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rusty_halo: doctor and rose looking into space (dw: ten/rose: looking into space)


[personal profile] rusty_halo
2010-08-17 05:57 pm UTC (link)
Liking Ten/Rose is definitely unfashionable, but *squees over them anyway*.

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